Curse

~ Dan ~ · Oct 03, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Avatar of Balthazar isn't bad, it's just that the others are better due to synergies, while Balthazar just gives a flat bonus that doesn't synergise well with anything (in fact, with the cap on armour bonuses, it actually antisynergises with some skills)

Your right, it isn't bad. It's terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

In pve I have a basic derv avatar build that can put out ok dmg and lasts for a good while.

[skill]Vital Boon[/skill][skill]Twin Moon Sweep[/skill][skill]Mystic Sweep[/skill][skill]Eremite's Attack[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]Signet of Pious Light[/skill][skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

15 Mystic
15 Scythe
The rest go into earth prayers

I use 2 sups and 1 major rune, but that puts me at very low health. Also you can switch out res sig for [skill]Eternal Aura[/skill] but really you don't need it also this build does work in pvp somewhat.

Twin moon sweep is a bad skill. Sig of pious light + vital boon is kinda a newbie combo. And why are you using mystic regen!?!? You have, 2 enchants, 1 of which you'll keep stripping for a heal, and with 12 myst and 12 scythe base stats, can you even afford to have 8 earth? (ah, i realise your use of runes.. i pity your monk) So that's what, 2-4 regen? You have no condition removal, no ias. And then of course, there's always AoB in the build...

Coloneh · Oct 04, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

seriously panda, that sone of the worst build ive ever seen. everything dan said PLUS your running multiple superiors. one superior is detrimental enough.

Bowstring Badass · Oct 04, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

That's not even a question. Balthazar is useless. To the max.
Mel makes you unspikeable, unblindeable and lets you spam Eviscerate.

LOL WEARYING STRIKE FTW.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 04, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

AoB=worst avatar for general use. Melandru+a zealous scythe will keep you happy all day long with spammable deep wound and condition free killing, not to mention a health boost. Eternal aura is a must have for just about any avatar build in PvE since it completely cuts out that annoying downtime. Lyssa is nice for spikes and can generate some really impressive damage. The ONLY time I've ever used balthazar was in an AB and the sole purpose of the build I was using was to take out MM armies in a hurry. Banishing strike makes MM's cry with balthazar's holy damage but other than that it's not very useful.

Agreed. Yet sill in pve AoB is good for people who wanna tank without having to put out too much effort.

Then I wonder what that says about other people in RA?

Even though it is a noobie combo it works.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 04, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Agreed. Yet sill in pve AoB is good for people who wanna tank without having to put out too much effort.

In the 1 or 2 areas that it's worthwhile to tank, you should be running obsidian flesh, not avatar of worthlessness.

Pericles · Oct 04, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

In the 1 or 2 areas that it's worthwhile to tank, you should be running obsidian flesh, not avatar of worthlessness.

Hehe, this made me laugh. To the OP, i don't want to repeat what has been said for a thousandth time but i agree that AoB sucks, heres the order in which i think is best-worst (for pve):

Avatar of Melandru
Avatar of Lyssa
Avatar of Dwayna
im not even gonna note it as it doesn't even deserve it's place here.

I'll pay everyone who comes up with a reason for using AoB a large sum of money

!

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 05, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Lol I posted AOB but that build was made to use all avatars. I was just using it in RA recently and doing very good.

Coloneh · Oct 05, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

succes in RA is not anything to base judgement of a build on.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 05, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

I was just using it in RA recently anddoing very good.

Even by RA standards, I find this very hard to believe.

Utaku · Oct 05, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Well, in RA, you can kill an unprotected caster in 3 swings, even with AoB. Doesn't prove anything.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 05, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utaku

Well, in RA, you can kill an unprotected caster in 3 swings, even with AoB. Doesn't prove anything.

True, especially if they have 300hp like this guy does with his use of runes

iridescentfyre · Oct 05, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

Lol I posted AOB but that build was made to use all avatars. I was just using it in RA recently and doing very good.

How was it made to use all avatars? It wouldn't have synergy with anything, except maybe Lyssa only because of the enormous energy you waste losing/recasting all of your enchantments constantly. You have two Superior runes, Avatar of Balthazar, and a self-heal nightmare going on. I'd really like to hear your explanation why its a good build?

Any build played by any person can do well in RA, if they get really good teammates or really bad enemies. Success in RA means less than nothing about a build.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Oct 07, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

lol

It's a decent build. It was working pretty good with dwayna actually.

draxynnic · Oct 08, 2007, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Your right, it isn't bad. It's terrible.

Yes and no.

The way I look at it is that there's no such thing as an AoB dervish. As I stated in a different thread (I think it was a different thread) you can't hang a build off it like you can with the other avatars. So in most situations, a build using synergies with another avatar is going to be considerably more powerful.

While Balthazar doesn't synergise with any skills, however, it also doesn't require any circumstances to be useful. Dwayna provides the most benefit when you're spamming skills. Lyssa provides the most benefit when the enemy is continuously using skills. Melandru is best used when the enemy is throwing conditions around or with skills like Wearying Strike. The elite enchantments are all keyed to various builds, weapons, or situations. Balthazar, on the other hand, provides a small benefit that is useful in almost all situations.

Which I think is it's assigned purpose. In situations where the other elites are inappropriate or in builds where the elite just isn't that important, it provides a defensive alternative to elite scythe attacks (arguably even Wounding Strike is at its best with a build made to use it and quickly switching between delivering Bleeding and Deep Wound, but I suspect most players will just be happy with Deep Wound on tap), with some specific benefits when fighting undead or when mobility is important. There is no "AoB" dervish the way some dervish builds can be described by the elite they're using - the other Avatars and EDA, for instance - just Dervishes that happen to use AoB.

It's not a bad skill. It fills its role. The problem is that its role as a general-purpose skill paradoxically reduces it to being a niche skill, as 99% of the time you're better off taking an elite more specific to your build or expected opposition.

Seef II · Oct 08, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Heh, Balthazar's great for running places. I used it in Raisu Palace too, given the lack of conditions there and L28 enemies, but haven't touched it again since then. Melandru ftw, or to a lesser extent the elite scythe attacks.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 08, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

lol

It's a decent build. It was working pretty good with dwayna actually.

This is exactly why i don't PUG. Noobs refuse to accept that their build is utter crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

doesn't require any circumstances to be useful.

Yes.. but there aren't any circumstances which it is useful. But i'm done with argueing this same thing, listen to good dervishes and accept Balthazar sucks, or stay on the same level as Sir Pandra Pierva.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seef II

Heh, Balthazar's great for running places. I used it in Raisu Palace too, given the lack of conditions there and L28 enemies, but haven't touched it again since then. Melandru ftw, or to a lesser extent the elite scythe attacks.

No it's not. What're you gona keep stopping to remove every single snare? VoS runner > all avatar runners.

Stormlord Alex · Oct 08, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

It's not a bad skill.

Yes. It really is a bad skill. It's a bunch of weak, half-assed, unfocussed buffs rolled into a truly subpar elite.

You said it yourself, it doesn't synergize well with anything... Which is what makes it so bad. The elite is the keystone of a build, an exceptionally powerful skill that makes the whole thing... well... work smoothly.

Trust me, any build that you could cobble together and throw Balth on, you'd be a million times more useful with Reaper's, Wounding, EDA.... or Skull Crack.

MBP · Oct 08, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Ok AoB is bad...please accept it! People only think he's good because he looks cool.
Now back to the topic at hand...

When using a AoM build how one would fit in self heal? Over a 3rd attack or over res? Or would it not really be needed because of the +100 health you should have constantly?

From the previous posts...I was thinking

AoM
Eternal Aura
Heart of Fury
Mystic Vigor/Zealous Sweep
Wearying Strike
Eremite's Attack
Rush
Res

Marverick · Oct 08, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Since I assume that's PvE with the use of Eternal Aura, dump Rush for it. You don't need a speed boost for PvE.
Although I personally wouldn't run with a self heal in PvE meh, you have Monks you know. Take Great Dwarf Armor to increase your armor and stop your red bar from going down, and let them worry about red bars going up.

Coloneh · Oct 08, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

victorious sweep